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Steersman's avatar

Thanks for the plug, likewise for the "some alternative views"; most appreciated. 👍🙂

But I agree with much of your post, particularly with the objective or aim of "challenging Gender Identity Theory."

However, as much as I can sympathize with your argument that "the average person has no idea what a gamete is", I think a number of your arguments are based on some problematic if common misconceptions that muddy the waters and contribute to a general misunderstanding of gametes and their relevance to sex category definitions.

For example, you say:

"And I'm meant to believe single nucleotides like this will be less of a defining feature for either male or female biology than gamete size?"

However, I think that misunderstands the difference between "define", on the one hand, and "determine" and "development" on the other. Although that misunderstanding is rather ubiquitous in various Twitter and online discussions which tends to cause unnecessary animosity and confusion. For instance, see this Twitter thread, with particular attention to the tweets by Nataniel Hart and UK biologist Emma Hilton:

"Female gametes are larger than male gametes. This is not an empirical observation, but a definition: in a system with two markedly different gamete sizes, we DEFINE females to be the sex that produces the larger gametes and vice-versa for males (Parker et al. 1972)"

https://twitter.com/NathanielHart72/status/1260810769303851015

https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-16999-6_3063-1

"An interjection.

The word ‘determine’ has a specific meaning in developmental biology, and it’s not the same as lay use. ....

In humans, chromosomes (well, genetic info) DETERMINE sex, that is, they are the MECHANISM that drives sex differentiation. ...."

https://twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1260851227904049154

Relative to your statement, a single nucleotide, being wrong or right, can DETERMINE whether a person turns out to be infertile or not, it can lead to the DEVELOPMENT of fertility or infertility. But those nucleotides have no bearing on what it takes to qualify as members of the sex categories. They're quite different kettles of fish.

Consider an analogy with the category "teenager". The definition DEFINES, or stipulates that to be a teenager one must be between the ages of 13 and 19 inclusive. But what DETERMINES whether a child under 13 DEVELOPS into a teenager is dependent on the passage of time as well as on a great many biological functions and processes - many of which can go horribly wrong. For instance, progeria, many victims of which sadly die of old age before even becoming teenagers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progeria

Similarly with "male" and "female". The definitions that Hart quoted stipulate that to be male and female is to have functional gonads of either of two types. But what DETERMINES whether a fetus DEVELOPS into one or the other - or into neither - depends on a whole cascade of biological processes and mechanisms. Many of which can go off the rails or be circumvented as with "puberty blockers".

However, I think that a somewhat more thorny and consequential problem with some of your arguments is related to your assertion that "human males can be identified by a list of physical features that includes having a penis". While I'm not sure of this, it seems that that is something of a fairly common misperception due to not being aware of the difference between what are called "essential properties" and "accidental properties":

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/essential-accidental/

Fairly decent elaboration on the differences there, though you don't need to read more than the first couple of paragraphs. Philosophers have a tendency to go off into the weeds over inconsequential details ... 😉

But relative to the standard biological defintions which Hart quoted above, the essential properties for the sex categories are either of two types of functional gonads. Those properties are the "necessary and sufficient conditions" for category membership: if organisms - of any sexually-reproducing species - have them then they're members of the male and female sex categories, and if they don't then they're not. That's the way those categories are DEFINED - and by many quite reputable sources going back over 50 years or more.

As for the accidental properties associated with the sex categories, consider the females of other species, birds and insects in particular, some of which have ZW and ZO karyotypes. It is, by definition, essential to have functional ovaries to qualify as a female, but those females may or may not - accidentally - have XX, ZW, or ZO chromosomes. You may wish to take a gander at my elaboration on that example in a comment over at GC News:

https://gcnews.substack.com/p/sat-april-16-and-sun-april-17-2022/comment/6121900?s=r

But there are, of course, literally hundreds of such accidental properties - breasts for example. Of course most "adult human females" have them, but then again so do men suffering from gynecomastia. And then there are the transwomen - more or less cuckcos in the nest. Strong correlation between breasts and "adult human females", but hardly a guarantee: breasts constitute something of a proxy variable:

"a proxy or proxy variable is a variable that is not in itself directly relevant, but that serves in place of an unobservable or immeasurable variable."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_(statistics)

Penises and vaginas are likewise such proxy variables - not at all easy just by looking at a naked individual whether they have actually have functional gonads. So we infer the presence of that "unobservable or immeasurable variable" on the basis of the statistical correlations between the latter ones and the proxy. For instance, based on typical demographics I guestimate that only some 70% of adult "penis-havers" and "vagina-havers" are in fact males and females, i.e., those with the required functional gonads, the rest being infertile and therefore sexless.

You may think that much of the foregoing is splitting hairs and largely irrelevant to the aim you set out. Which I'm certainly somewhat in sympathy with - as is Paul Griffiths who I've quoted in earlier comments here and elsewhere.

However, I also think that much of the entire transgender clusterfuck is due to a myriad of conflicting, inconsistent, incoherent, clueless, politically-motivated, ideologically corrupted, or outright insane "definitions" for the sexes - the "every cell has a sex" of an NCBI article taking the cake in the last category.

But I really don't think we're going to resolve that issue until we reach something of a consensus on what are the most rational and coherent definitions for the sexes. And I think the only game in town is to "stand pat" on the standard biological definitions based on functional gonads as the necessary and sufficient conditions for category membership.

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Lee Patterson's avatar

Wonderful! Thank you for this clear and elegant summary of a complex distinction.

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